Transcript of Interview with Diana MacTiernan and ABC's Andy Parks

Presentation
Manager of Commission Services Diana MacTiernan spoke to ABC Drive's Andy Parks on Wednesday 2 February. Here is a transcript of the interview.
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AP: Rio Tinto says it’s committed to reforming its workplace culture following the release of a damning report which found bullying, racism, sexual harassment and assault a common occurrences. The mining giant commissioned former Sex Discrimination Commissioner Elizabeth Broderick for the review which includes the accounts of 20 women alleging rape or attempted rape whilst at work.

AP: Rio Tinto says it will implement all the report’s recommendations.

“Changing experiences, and changing for example alcohol policies, better lighting, greater security, more activities for people to do on site…”

AP: That’s Rio Tinto Chief Executive of Iron Simon Trott speaking to the ABC last night.

Meanwhile, a Western Australian Parliamentary Inquiry is currently examining the problem of sexual harassment against women in the FIFO mining industry.

Diana MacTiernan is from the West Australian Equal Opportunity Commission, one of dozens of entities to make submissions to the inquiry. Welcome to drive.

DM: Okay thanks Andy and thanks for having us on your show.

AP: Were you surprised by what the Rio Tinto report uncovered within its own workforce?

DM: Sadly, no I’m not really surprised. It’s quite shocking that it had to go to that extent to have a separately commissioned report, but our understanding is across the sector that is not an unusual circumstance sadly.

AP: Why do you think it’s fly in fly out work roles that are found to be the most likely roles in which people experience sexual harassment?

DM: I suppose we identified there are a few characteristics that lend itself to that and that and I suppose that it is a male dominated work place and female staff are the minority and again we know that men can be subjected to sexual harassment but the majority of people who endure that behaviour, and sexual assault which is more severe, are women and  because of that imbalance in the workplace we feel, and because it is FIFO people become a bit dissociated from their social norm.

AP: That’s true, that’s true because we spoke to some former executives of Rio Tinto today and some suggested that fly in fly out arrangement helps breed conditions where workers talk about having a wife at home and a wife at camp, but I mean is it just a monoculture of FIFO conditions, or is it something else that leads to that behaviour?

DM: Look I don’t know and you’d have to do a whole social interrogation into that, but I think that it is such a false environment really it’s it’s not natural where people have to spend particularly long hours on the job, and really to think people get very tired and exhausted and maybe their need for release, whether that is drinking or sexual activity, that behaviour becomes more prevalent and so therefore their social inhibitors are not being put in place correctly. I mean I think it’s a combination of a whole range of factors and then different camps develop their own cultures and it would be very hard for people who are new, and if you think about that you’re in that environment 24 hours a day, to try to move out of that culture by not participating in some way either as a female or a male, you would feel like you’re out of place and that’s a very difficult situation for you to be in.

AP: On that silence to come forward that you spoke about, that culture of reluctance Elizabeth Broderick found that there was that similar sort of cultures of silence to report incidents, Rio said it would become less hierarchical and more humane as a result, but what’s needed more generally for people to have the confidence to come forward with a complaint?

DM: Knowledge where you can file a complaint and be confident that when you do bring a matter forward that it’s just not going to be dismissed or waved away, and I think that was one of the issues that came up in the State Parliamentary Inquiry, it came up there because you are reporting potentially to someone’s friend and that friend is unlikely to make an adverse action against them. We would also say the culture is important to be able to report things and you don’t have that culture of you know being a snitch or a rat because it may be more difficult for the person who’s actually experiencing the adverse behaviour to make the complaint. If someone else can report that behaviour and again you have that environment where it’s a big no-no with that person being ostracised. We want to put forward that having that whole bystander environment to be a lot stronger where people feel they would also potentially address some of this bad workplace culture where people witnessing the behaviour could say you know, give it a rest or pack it in and also letting people know they can come and speak to them if they are concerned about at this adverse behaviour that they’re experiencing.

AP: It does seem like a sort of structural or governance issue, last year the West Australian Mines and Petroleum Minister Bill Johnson was appalled when it was discovered that mining companies weren’t reporting sex crime to authorities I mean what does the Commission want to see to make mining sites more safe for both men and the women?

DM: It just goes and it’s almost part of the workplace health and safety legislation you have to report serious incidents and so that should be a mandatory requirement that it is being reported, and so people know and that’s and it’s another deterrent for that behaviour, if it’s known action would be taken against you, you will be hopefully less likely to behave in that manner.

AP: Just quickly are you confident that Rio Tinto, and the mining sector more broadly, will be able to achieve that kind of cultural change that is necessary?

DM: They should be able to, they are a very large organisations that have been able to and they’ve always put in place other safety measures and have been quite successful for that, it is just a bit strange that there is this disassociation of these very unsafe practices that have been going on haven’t been addressed, but they have addressed all their other safety issues and I think if they put their mind to it, it shouldn’t be that difficult. I do appreciate the other underlying issue is dealing with that and I think Elizabeth Broderick’s report found this, that there is an underlying sexism that is probably a more difficult cultural shift and a lot of work would have to be done on that, so once that change is made it gives the better foundation to addressing this type of behaviour.

AP: You do feel for people working in these remote locations, notwithstanding dreadful conditions and treatment at work.

We appreciate your time Diana

DM: Okay thank you.

AP: Diana MacTiernan the Manager of Commission Services at the Western Australian Equal Opportunity Commission and you’re listening to Andy on Drive.

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